Gardai refuse to search known CIA rendition plane at Shannon

by Tue Oct 30, 2007 17:02

CIA landing @ SNN

CIA refueling @ SNN

by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt League Tue Oct 30, 2007 17:24

Meanwhile you have the so-called guardians of the peace crawling through the bogs in north Mayo doing Shell's bidding.

New supt in Belmullet, John Gilligan crawled through mud to arrest?? Solidarity Camp member; just now released from custody - no charge.

Member in charge of Belmullet Station, Liam O'Riordan, at first refused to confirm that they were holding this person; quickly changed tune to say 'Yes, we have him'.

Refusal to act in Shannon, acting for Shell in north Mayo ... it's a rotten little country.

by googler. Tue Oct 30, 2007 18:18

In the Washington Post, a former admin official tries to dispel the "myths" about Rendition by confusing the renditions prior to 9-11 with the EXTRAORDINARY renditions carried out afterwards.
Who complained when the suspects of the 93 WTC bombing were snatched and ended up in a court? Not many people. They got lawyers, food, and their human rights. The FBI (a federal police force) were involved rather than the whole thing being a CIA operation.
Daniel Benjamin ( a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution,
served on the National Security Council staff from 1994 to 1999.) makes no distinction between that, and snatching people who were dragged to a Syrian torture hole, no judges, no evidence, no justice.

Comparing the snatching of fugitives, (like the guy who machine gunned CIA employees arriving at the office) and people like Maher Arar, and Khaled el Masri (innocent men who wouldn't suspect anybody was tracking them) is extremely dishonest.
Mr. Benjamin defends what is an obvious crossing of the line.

Meanwhile, in another publication, discussing the recent movie "Rendition" (- loosely based on the rendition of Maher Arar.) the writer puts forward an opinion from someone more closely connected than Mr. Benjamin.

The retired CIA official who [was in charge of the programme] has become highly skeptical about the value of what he calls "all this paramilitary stuff."
"We never got any good (intelligence) product from a rendition," he says now.

Plenty of whitewash in Washington, and plenty of 'see no evil' in official Ireland. Thanks to the Shannon Planespotters for seeing what others don't want us to know about.

by googler Tue Oct 30, 2007 18:25

Human rights groups urge Scottish Executive to probe transport of terror suspects for torture

Paul Kelbie
Sunday October 28, 2007
The Observer

Human rights campaigners will press the Scottish government to agree on a policy not to transport terror suspects for torture through its airports.

A dossier of evidence detailing the role of Scottish airports in so-called 'rendition' flights, compiled by human rights organisations, has been passed to the Crown Office for investigation. The report claims that British airports have been secretly used by the CIA to 'render' Islamist terror suspects to secret prisons in states where they could be tortured.

read the rest at the link :
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,2200812,00.html

by Guy Tue Oct 30, 2007 21:47

Aircraft ID N475LC
Aircraft Type GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE G-IV
Owner/Operator L 3 IS LLC
300 CENTRAL AVE FL 7 US BANK BLDG
GREAT FALLS MONTANA

Serial Number 1472
Year Manufactured 2002
Certificate Issued 06/21/2006

http://www.l-3com.com/fi/

http://members.aol.com/softlabhennef/cia_flights/cia_2006.htm

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=413595

by Justin Morahan Tue Oct 30, 2007 22:09

Well done Ed and Conor. Thanks for all your work and for the report, highlighting the servile compliance of our Government with alleged torture and rendition by George W Bush's USA..

Our "leaders", disgraced since they ended our neutrality by allowing war troops to use Shannon airport for an abominable war against Iraq, continue to act disgracefully.

First they pretended that there were no troops going through Shannon. Then, when the cameras revealed the troops were indeed there, they shamefacedly hid behind the lie that Saddam Hussein was somehow responsible for the attack on the Twin Towers, that he had, in George W Bush's words "weapons of mass destruction" and was therefore a threat to the USA. On these spurious grounds they trampled on our neutrality and made us complicit in all of Mr Bush's atrocities. They rushed legislation through the Dáil and Senate to make retrospectively legal their own cowardly illegal cooperation with the war. They have never apologized.

When you, along with Tim and Fiona and others, kept watch for the nation and found that rendition planes were also using Shannon, they (our Government) again denied it - and when the proof became evident, they refused to search the planes. Waffle appears to be the Government's response to every allegation of wrongdoing on their part.

Now they are refusing to search these rendition/torture planes again, not openly like people with the courage of their convictions, but through delays and subterfuge, always fearful of showing disrespect to their chosen masters. To them they show a craven, apologetic attitude.

Even the Green Party who were so vociferous about all of these wrongdoings while they were out of Government have now sold out on the issue of Shannon's war troops and rendition planes (as well as on other most serious matters) They have joined the very people whose actions they rightly denounced and have sheltered beneath the shiny, gaudy canopy of a perfidious, slithery party whose forte and main interests coincide in simply hanging on to power over others.

What a sad State we live in. Uriah Heep would have felt very much at home here, especially at the Cabinet table.

by Seán Ryan Tue Oct 30, 2007 22:23

It is a disgrace that these planes are not searched. The Greens having sold everything to get into power supposedly secured a concession from FF that planes would be searched.

One of my fears about all of this is that the Greens will suddenly announce that the CIA planes will be searched at random and that they have lived up to their responsibilities. If this happens we will be told to shut up as we've gotten what we asked for.

If the planes land in Ireland they should be searched, that's a given. I think that those who are not directly connected to the various anti-war movements may be fooled into thinking that searching these planes is our prime objective. It is not. We do not wan't a foreign spy network that is connected with genocide on a global scale landing in our country period. Neither do we want to facilitate troops of the same nation, who are on their way to participate in an unlawful occupation of a once sovereign nation, in order to ensure that its resources and future are stolen.

Keep up the great work Ed and thanks for keeping us informed.

by Edward Horgan Tue Oct 30, 2007 23:09

Urgent help is needed at Shannon to monitor US military and CIA planes.
We need weekly protests each Saturday at 2 pm. Even if only one or two people turn up, that can be very significant.
Bring a megaphone, the silence at Shannon is deafening.
Go right up into the terminal building and inform all the airport users how the airport is being abused, or more importantly, how prisoners are being tortured and innocent people being killed in Iraq.
We have had enough of "why doesn't someone do something" Dont wait to be asked to attend a protest at Shannon - organise your own protest. Let each sat from now on be a protest event at Shannon. Be creative and unpredictable.
We also need over night camping protests.
Most of the CIA planes are comming during the hours of darkness. This suits their murky business.
I will help any group even at very short notice that wants to organise a protest at Shannon.
We also need help from the workers at Shannon.
The example of the Dunes Stores workers who led a boycott of South African goods in protest against the Apartheid regime should be repeated at Shannon.
There must be an immediate boycott of OMNI Air, ATA, the two main US troop carriers through Shannon. CIA planes must not be services or refueled at Shannon.
Lets stop all this waffle about what someone else must do at Shannon and come to Shannon in small numbers or large and engage in positive peaceful protest.

It was far too late to protest against the Holocaust in 1945.
We must all do something, do anything, to prevent the evil that is being perpetrated at Shannon in our name, while that evil is still going on.

by Ciaron - Catholic Worker Wed Oct 31, 2007 08:22 passing through Dublin

I think a weekly anti-war presence at Shannon would be most significant.

In Australia we have managed to sustain a weekly presence at Enoggera Army Base for the last 6 months. Troops are deployed from Enoggera to Iraq and Afghanistan. Two weeks ago a soldier from Enoggera (father of two) was killed by a roadside bomb in Afghanistan.

From a pool of 12 folks we rarely numerically drop below 5 folks at the vigil. It has created a creative tension which would not have been there. This war has never been popular anywhere - it gives folks an opportunity to express their opposition by honking their horns today, hopefully supporting resisting soldiers tomorrow. Soldiers returning from Iraq and Afdghanistan have taken the opprotunity to approach us and reflect on the issues.

Every 6 weeks we have an afternoon of reflection to consider what we have learnt from the vigil, how to improve it and how to deepen our resistance to this war. Most of our crew are in their 40's & 50's, have kidz and jobs. Many of us have taken NVDA against war making in the past. We are mostly but not exclusively radical Catholics and the vigil is a significant opportunity to practise and consider our faith

I think anyone who is seriously opposed to this war should be standing publicly in opposition with a sign at least for an hour a week, outside a military base, government building, in the high st. on campus, outside an electoral or corporate office. With so many U.S. tourists and military passing through Shannon it sound like an ideal spot to take a stand against this war.

Here's some photos of our anti-war vigil at Enoggera
......
http://sydney.indymedia.org.au/story/brisbane-anti-war-activists-continue-oppose-aust-military-deployment-iraq-and-afghanistan-0

by softlabhennef Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:53

L3 Is LLC seemes to be linked with a lawyer firm named "Jardine, Stephenson, Blewett & Weaver, P.C." (same address)
http://www.jardinelaw.com/

Registered agent: GARY W BJELLAND
http://www.veromi.net/Summary.asp?fn=GARY&mn=G&ln=BJELLAND&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&city=&state=MT&age=&vw=&Search=&Input=&x=63&y=9

Associated Businesses:
http://www.veromi.net/Summary.asp?ln=l-3&vw=Business&Search=Business&Input=Business&Image1.x=62&Image1.y=13&city=&state=MT

N475LC was also seen in Glasgow (11-08-2007):
http://slleftunity.blogspot.com/2007/08/possible-rendition-aircraft-called-at.html

More news about miscellaneous CIA planes:
http://worldcontent.twoday.net/topics/CIA+Flights/

by Guy Wed Oct 31, 2007 14:11

The owner of the plane gives a useful insight into the type of peole the CIA are making rich by providing torture transport. This guy has fingers in every pie from childcare to ranching to development. This is America. The same ole bosses running the same ole show, this time in the name of democracy. There is big money in war and democracy but then there always was.

http://www.veromi.net/Summary.asp?ln=l-3&vw=Business&Search=Business&Input=Business&Image1.x=62&Image1.y=13&city=&state=MT

by softlabhennef Wed Oct 31, 2007 16:01

L3 - Communication run also a private intelligence agency which is financed by US-Government and is still operating in Iraq (ISS-I)

http://worldcontent.twoday.net/stories/4147642/

http://www.intelligencecareers.com/jobs/jobview.cfm?jobid=553371

L-3 is a company with revenues estimated at $12.5 Billion and with over 60,000 employees. L-3 is a leading supplier of communications and specialized products and services to the US Department of Defense, intelligence agencies, federal civilian agencies, state and local governments, foreign governments, and major aerospace and defense prime contractors.

L-3 has Government Contracts about $5,373,901,539 in Fiscal Year 2006
http://www.fedspending.org/fpds/tables.php?tabtype=t2&subtype=t&year=2006

by Edward Horgan Wed Oct 31, 2007 16:26

In favour of a weekly vigil at Shannon
by Ciaron - Catholic Worker Wed Oct 31, 2007 08:22 passing through Dublin
I think a weekly anti-war presence at Shannon would be most significant.

Thanks for your support Ciaron.
OK, then, lets do it.
As from the comming Saturday November 3rd there will be weekly vigil at Shannon airport at about 2 PM, or anytime, at the terminal building or anywhere at Shannon, participants will include you and me, or anyone who still cares. Bring a banner, megaphone, whistle, or whatever. Do whatever you feel is appropriate to oppose war, but whatever you do, dont do nothing, and dont remain silent, or complicit.
Lets make sure also that there are brief vigils at Shannon on Christmas Day, New Years Day and Women's Christmas 6th January.
Edward

by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt League Thu Nov 01, 2007 15:47

I salute and support the work done by Edward, Tim and all others in another long fight to 'reclaim the integrity of our democracy'.

As you are aware, it will not be possible in the forseeable future for too many from Erris, north Mayo, to join you in person at Shannon.

We are, however, doing our bit to fight the greed of Big Oil and its facilitation by this and previous flaccid governments.

In solidarity, Maura Harrington

by W. Finnerty. Thu Nov 01, 2007 17:19

The whole lot of them, i.e. our "public servants" (so called), are breaking the law in MAJOR ways all over the place - Shannon Airport included I very strongly suspect.

It seems to me that it's well time now that the State was sued by somebody (or some group) for the "wrongful acts" of it's public servants: as is now very firmly established legal precedent in the Republic of Ireland (see http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Wrongful+Acts+Public+Servants+Ireland&btnG=Google+Search ).

I had a try myself some time ago to sue the State regarding the ongoing legal abuse I'm being subjected to; but, as I have explained to our chief Justice John L. Murray last August (by registered post), Solicitors Hogan & Co. (Ballinasloe, County Galway), are failing to reply to my letter to them dated April 3rd 2007.

Now, and to put the "icing on the ever growing CAKE OF CORRUPTION" as I sometimes think of it, our Chief Justice Murray is ALSO failing to reply to the registered letter I sent to him on August 28th last (copy at http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/ChiefJusticeMurray/28August2007/Letter.htm ).

I've long appreciated the protests (and the protestors) at Shannon, and I continue to do so. However, unless something of real significance is done about the systemic corruption in our legal profession, I don't believe protests on their own will "stop all the rot" connected with the ongoing use - or ABUSE much more like - of Shannon Airport in relation to supporting the UNLAWFUL invasion of Iraq in 2003 by US President George W. Bush and UK Prime Minister Tony Blair.

by Observer Thu Nov 01, 2007 18:10

In reply to William's post, in order to sue the State for the wrongful acts of its organs or servants you would have to demonstrate the requisite locus in order to be in a position to launch your proceedings. The problem with the possible ongoing transfer of persons through Shannon is that you would , in all probability, have to find someone so rendered and prove they were rendered through Shannon. As it is done in secret, that it is a pretty tall order.

It is also true to say that though the State may be breaching its obligations under international treaty (this has been pointed out by various orginisations), we, here in Ireland, have what's called a "dualist" legal system whereby you cannot litigate for breaches of our international convention rights through the Irish courts unless and until the various treaties are domestically incorporated, like the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundimental Freedoms, but even there you would be back to the "locus" issue.

by Observer Thu Nov 01, 2007 18:24

Can I also point out that the case indicated by William, Byrne V Ireland, is not precedent for suing the State in circumstances were you are NOT the actual victim of the alleged wrongdoing. The Byrne case allowed someone who had fell down a hole to sue the state (who were laying pipes and did a bad patch job thus creating the hole) whreas previously the State had been immune from suit. This immunity from suit was a carry-over from British rule where the Crown could not be sued. You still have to demonstrate sufficient interest in the case in order to prosecute it.

People should be careful that they do not get the wrong impression from some posts. As the saying goes, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"!

by Edward Horgan Thu Nov 01, 2007 19:56

While legal options are being actively considered at present on the abuses being perpetrated and/or faciliated by the state at Shannon airport, we must also take practical steps to both highlight and protest at what is going on.

We need less waffle and more practical action.

We need specific individuals, that is you, to make committments to come to Shannon, next Sat 3 Nov 07, or any other Sat at about 2 pm to make your own protest and find out for yourself what is going on. Dont take my word for it.
Email me at edward_horgan@hotmail.com if you have the courage and committment to come to Shannon.

Just for the record also, I have just been informed that the CIA plane N475LC that we flushed out being refuelled at Shannon very early on Tuesday morning last (30 Oct 07) has now returned to the US, but this time, they avoided Shannon and returned via Glascow airport going on to Bangor Maine USA early this morning (1 Nov 07).
Were they bringing a prisoner back to the US/Guantanamo and considered Shannon too unfriendly a refueling point??

by Contrarian Fri Nov 02, 2007 00:08

So: "flushed out" eh? A bit OTT, Edward, don't you think? I mean you could say that you "saw" it, "observed" it, "noted" it or "spotted" it. That would be accurate. But "flushed out" implies you took some action against it thereby causing it to change its behaviour and come to light when otherwise it would have gone hidden and undetected. You didn't. You saw an aircraft with its registration number prominently displayed land openly at a prominent civilian airport making no effort whatsoever to conceal its identity. It taxied to the terminal building refuelled and took off again. Wow.

by square eyes Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:35

att: Contrarian: Pls stop your fussing over semantics.

Well done to Ed, Connor, Tim and co.
Armed with nothing more than binoculars, notebooks and remarkable tenacity you have sustained brilliant work. Much respect.

Did any of ye see "Taxi to the Dark Side" a documentary on tv last week -it was part of the Why Democracy series? Its a film that looks at the US government, democracy, torture, human rights and rendition. I think its worth a watch and makes one feel even more outraged at the planes landing everyday and night totally unchecked at a small civilian airport in County Clare called Shannon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX0MPcN08Zc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peCpI9E0XAs

by W. Finnerty. Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:02

Personally, I feel the MOST practical thing that could be done, at this stage, would be to take legal action.

It seems to me that there comes a point when protesting cannot be a substitute for legal action, particularly if the number of people protesting are too few to seriously influence election results: as appears (possibly?) to be the case regarding the Shannon Airport issue.

However, I realise (from my own direct experience) that our grossly corrupt legal profession will block all legal proceedings which don't suit them, and that they have no qualms whatsoever about acting unlawfully if needs be to achieve their ends: which is EXACTLY what they are doing in my particular case.

IT IS THIS MAJOR CORRUPTION PROBLEM IN OUR LEGAL PROFESSION WHICH NOW NEEDS TO BE URGENTLY ADDRESSED IN MY VIEW: if the sovereignty of our State is to remain intact (in practice).

There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that I am being subjected to torture of an EXTREMELY nasty kind, and I have pointed this out to Chief Justice Murray, and Prime Minister Ahern, in the registered letters I sent to them on December 12th 2006 (copy at http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/PrimeMinisterAhern12December2006/Letter.htm ).

All I get in response from Chief Justice Murray and Prime Minister Ahern is "the silent treatment" - which is widely recognised as a form of bullying (i.e. PSYCHOLOGICAL TORTURE), and which in my case actually seriously aggravates the C-PTSD medical condition they have both been informed about on a number of occasions. (Copy of medical doctor's "To Whom It May Concern" letter - NOW OVER TWO YEARS OLD - available at http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/DrMcCavert28October2005/Letter.htm )

Please note that I AM the victim (in my particular legal case), and that I am NOT seeking justice on any other person's behalf - though I do believe that if I personally was to receive justice on my own behalf, it is likely that others would benefit, as is normal in such human rights cases.

One last point: while I would welcome legal advise regarding my particular case, on this or any other Indymedia thread, I would need to know the full, real name of the person who is giving it: for reasons which I feel should be VERY obvious.

by Edward Horgan Fri Nov 02, 2007 16:25

Torture is a most Heinous Crime, and is defined by the UN Convention Against Torture as follows:
“For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.”

Torture as so defined is regarded as being more serious even than murder. While I realise that William Finerty has suffered injustices, which he describes above, to describe these injustices as torture runs the risk of de-emphasising the suffering deliberately inflicted on helpless and often completely innocent people. I also feel it is inaccurate and wrong to describe the Irish legal profession as “our grossly corrupt legal profession”. Like all professions, and all sections of humanity, there are some corrupt people in the legal profession. However, I have met many in the Irish legal profession who are both honest and honourable.
This particular posting on Indymedia is intended to highlight the actual physical and psychological torture being inflicted on prisoners as a result of the US orchestrated rendition programme. It is counter-productive to use a topic like this to address more personal injustices suffered by individuals in a very different context.

All those who recommend doing nothing about the use of Shannon airport for torture rendition should continue to do nothing, but don’t put off those who feel that they should take protest or legal actions to oppose such heinous behaviour.
I still await volunteers to participate in a protest at Shannon airport this Sat 3 Oct at 2 pm and every other Saturday from now on.
Is there no one who can afford to spend one hour on behalf of tortured prisoners?

by anon Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:10

Manning attacks rendition record Adam Harvey
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/1101/1193444293032.html

Dr Maurice Manning said he was "hugely infuriated" by the Government's attitude towards allowing rendition in Ireland. He said if the Government was not sensible, a "bloody" fight on the subject would ensue.
"We have no evidence that Shannon airport is being used, but there is strong reason to believe it is happening," said Dr Manning. "The Government I think is out of touch with Irish public opinion on the matter,"
"We have a report on rendition due out in four weeks' time and already we're feeling a little bit of pressure to go easy, which we won't do. It's very foolish for people to put pressure, because it is more likely to make you stubborn."

Still years later since this came to light I will hold my breath for this 'bloody' fight from the IHRC, whether there proof that any prisoners were on the planes, the planes were here with pilots and CIA 'agents', these people need to detained and questioned about kidnap and torture.

Amnesty Ireland calls for closure of Guant ánamo Bay
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/1101/1193444282475.html

Also Ahern got a reminder of those opposed to war profiteering in at least two places on his business trip to Derry on 2nd November.

mention here, some footage shown on tv3
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/war-protesters-heckle-ahern-as-city-reaps-peace-dividend-1210390.html

http://www.raytheon9.org/ any update? http://www.blackshamrock.org/

by Edward Sun Nov 04, 2007 17:41

Thanks for the update AWI. We need your support and presence at Shannon over the comming weeks.

by W. Finnerty Sun Nov 04, 2007 20:10

A backup copy of my reply (of last Friday) to Edward Horgan's comments at the "Fri Nov 02, 2007 16:25" slot above can be viewed at http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/BACKUP/Indy2Nov2007/Post.htm#comment211240

by W. Finnerty. Tue Nov 06, 2007 19:48

First, a few small samples of the text of this document (which can be viewed in full at http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0011/print.html ):

+++++++++

Article 1

1. For the purposes of this Convention, the term “torture” means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.

Article 2

2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.

+++++++++

Allowing for the few small samples provided above, and for other parts of this particular piece of Republic of Ireland legislation, it seems to me that a number of our senior "public servants" (so called) would need to "watch their step" VERY carefully, and that for some it might already be too late? (Among several other things which should be worrying some people, is the fact that one part of this Act very clearly states: "A person guilty of the offence of torture shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life.")

Such dangers are particularly real, if for ANY reason our lawyers here in the Republic of Ireland were to do the honourable and genuinely democratic thing, and to follow the example at present being set by their counterparts in Pakistan: who, as many will already know, are at the present time rightfully demanding a return to "constitutional law" (and away from the BOGUS unconstitutional and illegal law of the despots and the plutocrats) - which is EXACTLY the kind of major change-of-direction the Republic of Ireland now also desperately needs (in my view).

Related link: http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/ChiefJusticeMurray/2November2007/Email.htm

by Will Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:50

So the Government of Eire, the Republic of Ireland, is complicit in kidnapping and torture.
For any Irish person this should be a source of great shame and anger. This is a disgrace to the men and women who gave their lives for this Republic.
The government, after all, is elected by us. We knew this was happening before the last election, yet
many of us re-elected torturers and kidnappers.
Is that a bit strong? I don't think so. These are the same people who lectured us that giving sustenance
and support to homegrown terrorists was to share in their guilt.

by W. Finnerty. Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:43

A few days ago I received an e-mail from a Republic of Ireland politician who read the above information regarding our "CRIMINAL JUSTICE (UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE) ACT, 2000" legislation, and who was obviously very pleased to learn of it.

The politician in question also expressed the belief that there are people "in positions of authority" (in the Republic of Ireland) who are badly in need of reading these particular pieces of information: which is a view I would VERY strongly agree with.

Yesterday I tried to ensure that some of our most senior public servants do read it, by sending the e-mail reproduced at the following address to a selection of them: http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/ChiefJusticeMurray/9November2007/Email.htm

Prime Minister Ahern TD (Republic of Ireland) is among those the e-mail at the above address was sent to; and, for anybody interested, his is the second name in the "CC" section.

For good measure, and with Shannon (INTERNATIONAL Airport) in mind, I also decided to ensure a selection of international media organisations and personalities were informed regarding this particular piece of legislation, as well. Full details of the e-mail used can now be viewed at http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/Media/10November2007/Email.htm

As can be seen at the address just above, RTE (State Broadcaster, Republic of Ireland), and newspaper proprietor Sir Anthony O'Reilly (Republic of Ireland) are among those the information has been sent to.

Consequently, there is now irrefutable evidence on the Internet (for all the world to see) that all of those listed on the above-mentioned e-mails have been informed about where, EXACTLY, the Republic of Ireland stands regarding the gravely serious "torture" issue.

Allowing for the phrase "with the consent or acquiescence of a public official" contained in Article 1 of this legislation, it seems to me that this whole business has major implications for ALL of our public servants: not least all members of our gardaí (police) - provided of course that our CRIMINAL JUSTICE (UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE) ACT, 2000 is treated with the great care and respect it fully deserves (in my view): by being UPHELD and ENFORCED in practice.

Far more important perhaps, this Act also seems (to me at least) to have major implications for ALL of the citizens of the Republic of Ireland: who are of course all fully entitled, at all times, to be properly SERVED by our laws, by our law-enforcement agencies, and by our entire legal system.

Have we put "the cart before the horse" again?

Instead of FIRST getting our human-rights "legal infrastructure" into good working order for the third millennium, we seem instead to be inappropriately giving such things as "road transport infrastructure" (for example) a much, much higher priority?

Hopefully, it's still not too late to reverse this shocking error (as I see things)?

by MK Sat Nov 17, 2007 00:27

Tue, Nov 13, 2007 -- Guest Lecture by Louise Arbour, UN High Comissioner for Human Rights

'Responsibility to Protect as a Duty of Care in International Law and Practice'

Friday 23 November 2007, the Public Theatre, Front Square, TCD
at 10am

rsvp catherine.finnegan@tcd.ie

by W. Finnerty. Sat Nov 17, 2007 16:51

I can't go to Friday's lecture in Trinity College myself - at least not safely (on account of an extant warrant for my arrest in the Republic of Ireland): thanks to the way our Chief Justice John L. Murray is failing to reply to the registered letter I sent to him on August 28th last (copy at http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/ChiefJusticeMurray/28August2007/Letter.htm )

If I could safely attend though, I would like to ask UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Louise Arbour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Arbour) about the manner in which human rights law in the Republic of Ireland appears to be used (or abused I should say perhaps) STRICTLY for "window dressing" purposes only.

As Chief Justice Murray has been proving to me for the past year almost, at the same time as TORTURING me with the arrogant "silent treatment" he is subjecting me to, he and his colleagues throughout the entire Republic of Ireland's legal profession do not have the slightest intention (it would seem?) of actually upholding and enforcing our "CRIMINAL JUSTICE (UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE) ACT, 2000".

Similarly with regard to our "European Convention on Human Rights Act 2003", which I am mentioning here as a second example of such abuse (in the Republic of Ireland). 

Allowing for the above, the three main questions I would like to ask UN Commissioner Louise Arbour are these:

1) What, if anything, can the United Nations do about situations where countries like the Republic of Ireland put human rights legislation in place: but don't UPHOLD or ENFORCE it?

2) Where do victims of such surreptitious, sly, and insidious human rights abuse get responsible legal advice on such matters? - when they cannot find a lawyer who is willing to even discuss the issues in question, and where the Chief Justice is unwilling to reply to letters (sent to him by registered post) on the subject?

3) Does the United Nations have any effective remedy for dealing with human rights abuses of the kind I have been saddled with, or, are the victims of such abuse simply expected to learn to live with such torture for the rest of their lives?

Maybe somebody attending the November 23rd lecture at Trinity College could ask these questions for me on my behalf, and let me know the answers that are returned by Ms Arbour?

Personally, I think it's time now that those responsible for all the grossly misleading and hypocritical window-dressing in the Republic of Ireland (regarding human rights law) were lawfully exposed in a way they don't forget in a hurry: for the purpose of ensuring they cannot continue to keep on, and on, making a complete mockery of human rights law with such impunity.

by Observer Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:53

William,

Firstly, the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundimental Freedoms is NOT A UN Treaty , it is a Council of Europe Treaty,and therefore, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights has nothing to do with it at any level, particularly its enforcement.

Secondly if there is an outstanding warrent for your arrest the appropriate thing would seem to be to meet your bail and defend yourself in the courts as would anyone else. You will get absolutely nowhere posting and writing letters to persons who can do nothing for you.

Thirdly, the Chief Justice will never, and should never, respond to a person from without the State who has an outstanding warrent against them, particularly if the effect of your letter is to assert that you are being "Tortured" by the authorities, and the basis for such claim would appear to be particularly slim, from reading your web-pages. Can you not understand that as a Judge he may, at some stage, have to judge your case and therefore any contact with you would be extremely innapripriate.

by W. Finnerty. Sun Nov 18, 2007 15:56

Observer,

Allowing for fact that you are (as I see it) giving legal advice in your Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:53 post above, I wonder if a) you would mind telling me who you are please, and, b) if you have any legal qualifications?

Please note that I tend to completely ignore legal advice I get from people I don't know - for reasons which I feel should be very obvious. I imagine (and hope) that the vast majority of other people do exactly the same.

Also, I wonder if it is lawful for you (or anybody else) to be giving legal advice in the way you are doing: if by any chance you are NOT a qualified lawyer?

In addition, and for all I know, the main purpose of your post might be to try and deliberately deceive Indymedia readers - using tactics which ensure you never has to take any responsibility for: regardless of the consequences for myself, or for anybody else. (Correctly or otherwise, I suspect that this is in fact what you are actually trying to do.)

Whatever your reason for giving your legal advice (above), I don't for a moment believe it has anything to do with helping me.

A further question: allowing for the thousands of qualified lawyers in the Republic of Ireland, why is that the only legal advice I can get on human rights law is from people on Indymedia using pseudonyms? - people who might not have ANY legal qualifications whatsoever?

Please note, for example, that I have not received ANY reply from qualified lawyer John Glynn (Principal Lawyer at Hogan & Co, Ballinasloe, County Galway) to the registered letter I sent to him April 3rd 2007 - the text of which can be read at http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/JohnGlynn3April2007/EmailLetter.htm .

Why do you think Mr Glynn (Barrister) is failing to even acknowledge receipt of the registered letter at the above address?

Personally, I cannot think of any GOOD reason why Mr Glynn is failing to provide me with a reply: especially when I have had confirmation from the Post office that the registered letter in question was successfully delivered on April 5th 2007. It is also the case that all of the legal papers connect with my home in County Galway have been lodged with Mr Glynn's law firm since the mid 1980s. As I don't owe any money on my home, concern about the possibility of not getting paid for doing legal work on my behalf cannot be an issue for Mr Glynn.

by Observer Sun Nov 18, 2007 18:42

Firstly, I never porported to give you legal advice at any stage. I merely made comment on and rectified some aparent innacuracies in your postings.

Secondly, if Mr.Galvin is a barrister, as you suggest, he is precluded from dealing with you directly. The code of conduct laid down by the Bar Council is clear that a Barrister may only advise you through your solicitor.

If it is the case that no legal practitioner in the country is willing to advise or assist you maybe that will give you some indication of what they consider as to the merits of your case.

Finally, this thread is relative to the US authorities using Shannon airport to transport persons to places where they may be tortured.

Could you pease post something relevent and stop using this space to further your alleged grievances against, well, nearly everyone at this stage.

I sincerely hope you won't now accuse me of torturing you!

by W. Finnerty. Sun Nov 18, 2007 19:45

I have not mentioned anybody by the name of "Galvin".

You're not under the influence of mind-altering drugs of some kind are you?

You certainly come across to me as somebody who might be.

Can you provide any hard evidence that barristers are not allowed to acknowledge receipt of letters sent to them through the registered post?

by Damien Mon Nov 19, 2007 00:50

"Can you provide any hard evidence that barristers are not allowed to acknowledge receipt of letters sent to them through the registered post?"

Traditionally this has been a strict rule. Recently however members of the bar may accept instructions directly from approved professional bodies. However William you are not a professional body.

In any case they cannot accept instruction directly on contentous issues such as the assault you committed.

http://www.lawlibrary.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/direct_professional_access/howtoinstruct.htm&CatID=11&m=d

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrister

by W. Finnerty Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:27

Damien (Mon Nov 19, 2007 00:50 above),

Please note that before writing to John Glynn (Barrister and Principal Lawyer at Patrick Hogan & Company), I wrote to Greg Nolan - who is a solicitor employed by law firm Patrick Hogan & Company, Dunlo Street, Ballinasloe, County Galway.

A copy of my letter to Greg Nolan, which I sent to him through the registered post, can be seen at the following address: http://www.constitutionofireland.com/GregNolanLawyer23December2005/Letter.htm

I never received any reply from Greg Nolan to the letter copied at the above address; and, if I had received a responsible reply from him, I think it most unlikely I would have ever needed to write to his superior (John Glynn).

Changing the subject, who are you? - and why all the cowardly, anonymous (not to mention grossly fragmented and crooked) verbal attacks?

As you seem to pride yourself in explaining things, perhaps you might now like to explain to us all who you are, and why you doing what you are doing?

What is it you hope to achieve?

I'm seeking justice for myself through the use of human rights law (in circumstances whereby I cannot find a lawyer willing to help me); what are you trying to do I wonder?

Finally, I feel it might be appropriate for me to inform you that the only reason I spend time responding to your malicious attacks is because I wish to try and prevent you (as best I can) from deceiving other people: with your sick, crooked, fragmented, and totally false arguments - which you deliver anonymously so that you can be as irresponsible as you please regarding what you write, and never have to worry about taking any responsibility for it.

Sick, sick, sick, is how whatever it is that's motivating you appears to me.

Related link: http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/ChiefJusticeMurray/28August2007/Letter.htm

by Observer Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:27

Dear William,

You really are becoming quite obsessional. I am sure that neither I nor the other persons commenting here have any interest in you one way or the other. I, at least, have merely being attempting to clear up some innacuracies in your posts and attempting to understand exactly what information it is you are trying to impart. With little sucess, it must be said.

By the way if the "Mr. Glynn" you refer to is a qualified Barrister but practicing as a Solicitor you can write away to him. There is no reason why he cannot respond to you as he is governed by the regulations of the Law Society rather than the Bar Council. Perhaps, though, he simply does not want to!

To get to substantive matters, it appears that the Commissioner for Human Rights at the COUNCIL OF EUROPE (this shoud not be confused with the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights who is also in Ireland soon, will speak at the national gallery today week on the present situation of human rights in Europe.

I am sure RENDITION will get a look in during the course of the talk.

by W. Finnerty. Mon Nov 19, 2007 13:29

Observer (at Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:27 above),

Please note that the Council of Europe has been informed about my case. Information relating to the registered letter I sent to them can be viewed at the following Internet address: http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/CouncilOfEurope25March2006Tracking/Email.htm

As a completely separate matter, United Nations Human Rights Commissioner Dr Louise Arbour has also been informed regarding my case; and, a copy of the e-mail used to inform her can be viewed at the following address: http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/Groups/19November2007/Email.htm 

Related link: http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/ChiefJusticeMurray/28August2007/Letter.htm 

by the digger Mon Nov 19, 2007 15:21

"Personally, I cannot think of any GOOD reason why Mr Glynn is failing to provide me with a reply: ..."

Your inability to deal with the assault case of which you have been convicted in any fashion which approaches reality would seem to be a very good reason indeed. You present as a crank, or a crackpot.

If you feel you are innocent why not return, file an appeal, and have a court hearing the way any normal person would? Instread of concocting a vast conspiracy to deflect from your assault.

by W. Finnerty. Mon Nov 19, 2007 20:46

digger (at Mon Nov 19, 2007 15:21 above,

I have not been convicted of any offence: so much for your latest round of verbal rubbish.

And who are you anyway?

Why are you afraid to use your real name?

Only cowardly thugs do what you are doing?

And who in their right mind would pay any attention to an arrogant cowardly thug of your kind?

I wouldn't - that's for sure.

by Damien Mon Nov 19, 2007 20:54

The reason you have not been convicted of assault is that you refused to show up on both of the court dates you were given. Just becasuse you are on the run doesn't mean you arent guilty.

And I can't understand why you expected a reply from that law firm - they told you they wouldnt enter into further correspondance once they realised that you were insane.

by W. Finnerty. Mon Nov 19, 2007 21:32

Damien (at Mon Nov 19, 2007 20:54 above),

Article 11. (1) "Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence." (Full text at http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html )

You've got a lot of catching up to do (it seems to me) - which no amount of bluster, arrogance, ignorance, stupidity, glib comments, lies, and so on, can compensate for.

Thanks to a grossly corrupt legal profession in the Republic of Ireland, I have been repeatedly denied the guarantees necessary for my defence: which is a straightforward violation of Article 11. (1) of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights produced in 1948.

Related link: http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com/Constitution/GerardMadden7November2005/Letter.htm

by Damien Mon Nov 19, 2007 22:04

William , your own brother gave evidence against you, you've described your "explosive anger" here before. There is no doubt that you assaulted this man. The only person who thinks its ok to assault people is you.

The only person denied justice here is the man you assaulted.

by Observer Tue Nov 20, 2007 00:29

William,

Sorry to have to break it to you but the Universal Declaration on Human Rights is not judiciable before the Irish Courts (ie you cannot plead it in your defence). We have a "dualist" system of law here. It would take too long to explain but effectively the State sign up to various international conventions and undertake to respect the provisions thereof in national laws/practice and or procedure but the provisions of the convention itself are NOT judiciable before the courts.

I don't mean to deflate you at every turn but obviously you have been doing some reading which has given you a somewhat perverse view of what exactly the various international conventions mean domestically.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and all that.

by Damien Tue Nov 20, 2007 00:39

Even if it were admissable, firstly there is no evidence to support the theory that William is being tortured , and secondly it wouldnt form a defense for walking into someones office and assaulting them because you don't think they are doing their job.

by Margaret Fri Dec 07, 2007 22:33

American aircraft used for rendition flights still stopping in Shannon
24th November, 1007

TWO aircraft confirmed to be involved in prisoner rendition activities by the CIA in reports published by the European Parliament, the Council of Europe and Amnesty International, continue to use Shannon Airport to refuel, but are still not being searched by gardaí.
The Gulfstream IV jets, registration numbers N475LC and N478GS, owned at the time by Centurion Aviation Services, a shelf company for the CIA, have been identified by the EU's temporary committee on the alleged use of European countries by the CIA for the transport and illegal detention of prisoners, published in November 2006.

It is also known that N478GS landed at Shannon on July 26. However more recently, N475LC refuelled at the airport in the early hours of October 30. A formal request for the plane to be searched by gardaí was made on the night by anti-war campaigner Edward Horgan from Limerick. Mr Horgan, a retired Irish army commandant, was aware that the plane was due in Shannon and was there when it arrived.

Mr Horgan's request to have the plane searched was refused by gardaí and he made a formal complaint about the aircraft's presence in Shannon. Two days later, Mr Horgan received a letter from An Garda Síochána stating that "the Gardaí will not be taking any action on the information contained in your statement".

At a conference in Ennis, Mr Horgan asked guest speaker Kathleen O'Toole, the head of the Garda Síochána Inspectorate, whether she would investigate the failure of gardaí to prevent the use of Shannon for torture by not implementing the UN Convention Against Torture (UNCAT) and the Irish Criminal Justice (UNCAT) Act, 2000.

Ms O'Toole said: "The only thing I know about Shannon is what I have read and heard in the media. I have no personal or professional knowledge of that whatsoever. We haven't been involved in Shannon, and we haven't been asked to get involved in Shannon, but if the minister sees fit at any given time to assign us to look at anything throughout the country involving Garda practices, then, of course, we will do that."

Centurion Aviation Services was also named in an Amnesty International report on rendition last year, Below the Radar: Secret Flights to Torture and Disappearance, as a "company linked to rendition flights".

The registered owner of both aircraft is now listed as L-3 IS LLC, Great Falls, Montana.

According to the European Parliament report, "aircraft N478GS and N475LC belong to the company Centurion Aviation Services. This company is relevant, within the framework of CIA flights, as a beneficiary of the so-called 'landing permits' in the US military bases all over the world. The Civil Aircraft Landing Permit (CALP) authorises aircraft to land on US military bases worldwide. These companies are generally private.

"According to flight logs, aircraft N475LC and N478GS made the most frequent stopovers in Shannon airport, Ireland (76 stopovers in total).
- By Pat Flynn

by Brendan Sat Dec 08, 2007 00:27

Bolivian Mob Attacks Venezuelan Military Plane With Rocks

AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, LA PAZ, BOLIVIA

An angry mob of Bolivian civilians threw rocks at a Venezuelan military plane refueling at an airport in northeastern Bolivia, forcing the unwelcome aircraft to fly out of town, according to a Dec. 6 report.
The leader of a local civic group opposed to President Evo Morales, who is a top ally of leftist Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, said no Venezuelan military planes would be allowed to land in Riberalta, especially if they are carrying weapons.
“We have to defend our people,” Riberalta Civic Committee President Marcos Jauregui was quoted as saying by the Catholic news agency Erbol.
“Why wasn’t there a press conference to disclose what they are bringing to the country? We must be vigilant because we will not allow Venezuelan planes to come,” he said.
A Bolivian aviation source, who requested anonymity, confirmed that the plane was a Hercules airplane belonging to the Venezuelan air force.
The source said the plane landed in Riberalta after it was not allowed to refuel at its original destination, the Brazilian city of Rio Branco, for unknown reasons.
Up to 200 people with signs saying “Enough interference!” threw stones at the plane, which left to an unknown destination amid rumors it was carrying weapons.
We won't put up with these Venezuelans who come to the country and do whatever they want. We won't let any Venezuelan planes come here," Mario Aguilera, a Riberalta opposition leader told Erbol radio as the demonstrators chanted "Independence, Independence".

Let's stand with our Bolivian comrades in the fight against their oil rich imperialist neighbours!!

by G.D.Flynn - International Republican Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:39 flynnfacultasliterum at hotmail dot com 188 burghsliussingel 3086 vg Rotterdam

Quote: Bureacht na hE'reann , Article 28 Paragraph 3

" War shall not be declared and the State shall not PARTICIPATE in ANY WAR,
save with the ASSENT of DA'IL E' ireann.

There may be a time fast approaching , when those who mock at the Drum of
Neutrality on which I hammer, and scoff at my WISDOM will grasp at my
LEARNING.

I Remain Yours Respectfully G.D. Flynn Flynn O Flynn

by Observer Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:20

Dear Mr. Flynn,

Though you quote correctly from the Oireachtas that very matter was litigated in very recent years by Ed. Horgan. (Horgan V An Taoiseach & Ors.)

The judge in the case, Mr. Justice Nicholas Kearns indicated that it was entirely a matter for the Oireachtas as to when a state of war exists and whether a resolution of the dail is required. In the case of shannon they did not so consider thus a resolution was not required in order to the State to facilitate the US . The judge said the Courts would be extremely slow to interfere in the exercise bythe oireachtas of its constitutional functions under the tripartate system, particularly in the area of foreign relations.

I don't happen to agree with this judgement but it is the case that you can quote all you want from the Constitution but unless you know what it the section ACTUALLY means it can give people the wrong idea.

by G.D.Flynn - International Republican Sat Dec 08, 2007 14:25 flynnfacultasliterum at hotmail dot com 188 burghsliussingel 3086 vg Rotterdam

Dear Observer,
It,s is,nt me that you must convince. Russia is to send its Murmansk
Fleet. From the Bearing Sea and the Baltic , and into the Atlantic, and to Patrol the Greenland and Artic , Waters interposed between Eire and Greenland, Where the United States are building Radar Installations,linked to both Poland and Czech, Star Wars Project, courtesy of Messers Bush and Blair, Invariably both will be in their bunkers when the rocket goes wrong, Eire,s Neutrality if you,ve already guessed is in the Front Line. What Mr Putin said in Eire , months ago is almost what I,m trying to say to many of my countrymen, as well as the Neutrality of Northern Ireland, whom because of its affiliation with Britain is not a Neutral State. The Republic of Eire is also a supplier of energy to Europe under Whose Control ? as old Aesop said, you cannot walk with the mice and fly with the bats, and claim your neither one or the other,because rest assured Gulliver has to be convinced. Eire,s Neutrality Act is the best Defense it has at home or abroad . The misuse of Aer Lingus 707 in the Bombing of Tuwaitha just outside Bagdad, the Nuclear plant in1981 on a Sunday the 7th June is only one Instance and I could give you more, but at least the Politicians for once come clean.
Thanks Observer for your comment
I remain Yours Respectfully G.D.Flynn
Flynn O Flynn

by Jacqueline Fallon Sat Dec 08, 2007 14:33

In reality, all international treaties that those representatives of Leinster House sign are purely for cosmetic purposes (bit like Christmas wrapping paper with the same dismal fate), presented ‘for show’ so that the international community is aware that ‘in theory’ Ireland shows a façade of supporting peace to the world (only to be discarded later in the bruscar on their way home). But do not for God’s sake expect those in Leinster House to take serious action, such as enacting these international peace treaties into Irish law, or standing-up and opposing US military actions (by denying them the use of Irish civilian airports) in order to promote a more peaceful world.

According to some of those in Leinster House, Ireland must obey the US no matter what atrocities it perpetrates, and must forever slavishly be at its beck & call and supporting the never-ending US military’s exclusive war on unfortunate countries targeted because they are in possession of rich natural resources. It appears to me that the US will invent any excuse to conduct a war (despite lack of evidence) in an attempt to validate their occupation of countries that have these highly sought after natural resources.

The people governing Ireland today like the ‘gloss’ of being a ‘peace loving country’ by signing these international treaties, but ‘lack backbone’ and the ability to stand up and show its total condemnation for countries like the US who are ceaselessly perpetrating horrific lengthy wars and are one of the greatest threats, in my opinion, to world peace today. I do not believe there will ever be peace in the world if countries like Ireland and others remain silent and assist the US military on their way to never-ending war missions around the world.

Sometimes I wonder if the US committed the same war crimes as Hitler did during World War II would Ireland still assist them in the interests of supporting the Irish economy. Vincent Browne was right when he asked:

"Does Ireland stand for anything anymore?"

(I have pondered the above question many a time.)

Síocháin oraibh.

by W. Finnerty. Sat Dec 08, 2007 19:27

"Ireland", the present Republic of Ireland Government that is, firmly supports despots and plutocrats (especially our own, and those of the United States); and, it also supports the democratically elected type of dictatorship they run on behalf of such people - which all of their many close associates and appointees in the media, and in all the many government-funded bodies and so on, use to help them to hoodwink the majority of the voters into electing them back into power repeatedly.

That's basically what Ireland "stands for" now (in my view).

Then of course our present Government is also indebted to all of the anonymous and cowardly forms of "brownshirt" type "agro" (on places like Indymedia Ireland) - from the likes of all the "Damien's", "Observers", "Septics", "diggers" and so on. (Not sure if our Government actually pays for it, or how?)

As with the SA "brownshirts", the "Damien & Company" maxim seems to be: "All opposition must be stamped into the ground" (anonymously, vigorously, and instantly of course). For more on the tactics of the brownshirts, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung

Most people already know how things ended in 1945 for the "brownshirts", and for all those they so vigorously supported (i.e. Hitler and his associates), right up to the bitter end: but, the "Damien's", "Observers", "diggers" and the "Septics" seem to be ignorant of all this?

Or, maybe Damien & Company just LOVE the thought of never ending destruction and violence? - and all the "beer hall" type brawling in and around the dark alleys of the Internet's modern day equivalent of the Munich Hofbräuhaus?

"Does Ireland stand for anything anymore?"

My answer would be "YES": sub-human anonymous scum, who love "protecting" their criminal heroes/masters in Government - with all of their lies, half-truths, and their arrogantly delivered fragmented "arguments".

What an almighty mess Ireland is now in: and with no obvious means of being able to climb back out of the cesspit.